Comments on: Haskell In The Finals http://lojic.com/blog/2009/08/18/haskell-in-the-finals/ Sun, 25 Dec 2011 09:28:24 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Slobodan Blazeski http://lojic.com/blog/2009/08/18/haskell-in-the-finals/comment-page-1/#comment-6936 Slobodan Blazeski Wed, 26 Aug 2009 14:59:21 +0000 http://lojic.com/blog/?p=717#comment-6936 Since there is no huge company or community to fall on niche languages like lisp, haskell, prolog, apl & forth usually work best under very specific circumstances. Though things might have changed since the last time I've checked haskell ecosystem was worse then common lisp by very far. Though I don't mind being outside mainstream I would really want to hear about companies making money with it before I bet my applications on it. BTW what kind of work the language you're looking should be suitable for? From reading your 2009 language plan I assume you're thinking of web applications and judging by the latest trend you should probably learn some good javascript library (like qooxdoo or dojo) and pool some data from the server back end from whatever language you're most familiar with (be it Lisp Hunchentoot, Elang Yaws or whatever is the name of the Haskell web server). If you still prefer to avoid javascript solutions maybe weblocks http://weblocks.viridian-project.de/ might be interesting for you. It's very well documented and tested in production use with active community and helpful maintainers. If you're more into something cutting edge but don't mid if its still into development Thomas Elam Dojo Zen http://www.box.net/shared/mxv4hqrp2p might be interesting for you. Since there is no huge company or community to fall on niche languages like lisp, haskell, prolog, apl & forth usually work best under very specific circumstances.
Though things might have changed since the last time I’ve checked haskell ecosystem was worse then common lisp by very far. Though I don’t mind being outside mainstream I would really want to hear about companies making money with it before I bet my applications on it.

BTW what kind of work the language you’re looking should be suitable for? From reading your 2009 language plan I assume you’re thinking of web applications and judging by the latest trend you should probably learn some good javascript library (like qooxdoo or dojo) and pool some data from the server back end from whatever language you’re most familiar with (be it Lisp Hunchentoot, Elang Yaws or whatever is the name of the Haskell web server). If you still prefer to avoid javascript solutions maybe weblocks http://weblocks.viridian-project.de/ might be interesting for you. It’s very well documented and tested in production use with active community and helpful maintainers.
If you’re more into something cutting edge but don’t mid if its still into development Thomas Elam Dojo Zen http://www.box.net/shared/mxv4hqrp2p might be interesting for you.

]]> By: Brian Adkins http://lojic.com/blog/2009/08/18/haskell-in-the-finals/comment-page-1/#comment-6935 Brian Adkins Wed, 26 Aug 2009 14:04:35 +0000 http://lojic.com/blog/?p=717#comment-6935 Slobodan, I did look at Qi briefly and found it to be interesting. Mark Tarver seems to have abandoned it though which is a mild concern. I may add it to my list of Lisps to study. In some ways, I wish I could simply make a quick decision about Haskell - it would save me time and effort, but it might also cause me to miss out on some valuable ideas. You stated that you didn't learn anything new from Haskell. That could be because you already know the ideas it presents, or it could be because you didn't spend enough time with it. Although they may not be new with Haskell, or uniquely associated with it, I think Haskell is a good language to learn about functional purity, laziness, monads, static type inference, etc. Even if I go with Lisp in the end, I think it will be time well spent for me personally. Slobodan, I did look at Qi briefly and found it to be interesting. Mark Tarver seems to have abandoned it though which is a mild concern. I may add it to my list of Lisps to study.

In some ways, I wish I could simply make a quick decision about Haskell – it would save me time and effort, but it might also cause me to miss out on some valuable ideas. You stated that you didn’t learn anything new from Haskell. That could be because you already know the ideas it presents, or it could be because you didn’t spend enough time with it.

Although they may not be new with Haskell, or uniquely associated with it, I think Haskell is a good language to learn about functional purity, laziness, monads, static type inference, etc. Even if I go with Lisp in the end, I think it will be time well spent for me personally.

]]> By: Slobodan Blazeski http://lojic.com/blog/2009/08/18/haskell-in-the-finals/comment-page-1/#comment-6934 Slobodan Blazeski Wed, 26 Aug 2009 12:57:22 +0000 http://lojic.com/blog/?p=717#comment-6934 Quote: I feel that a reasonable level of proficiency is required to evaluate a language well. I have seen many examples of someone, with only a little knowledge of a programming language, making an unfounded criticism of a programming language, or a particular feature, only to be corrected with an accurate, elegant and convincing counter argument by someone who is experienced with the language. I can't agree on this. Usually after a short time I have good understanding is language worth it or not. After a while I could get used to something but it just never finds place in my heart. I've tried Haskell for few weeks I'm pretty sure that it's not my kind of language. Links about my experiences are below. Beside why not giving a chance to Mark Tarver Qi http://www.lambdassociates.org/ ? (*) http://tourdelisp.blogspot.com/2008/03/lisper-first-look-at-haskell.html (**) http://tourdelisp.blogspot.com/2008/03/farewell-haskell.html Quote:
I feel that a reasonable level of proficiency is required to evaluate a language well. I have seen many examples of someone, with only a little knowledge of a programming language, making an unfounded criticism of a programming language, or a particular feature, only to be corrected with an accurate, elegant and convincing counter argument by someone who is experienced with the language.

I can’t agree on this. Usually after a short time I have good understanding is language worth it or not. After a while I could get used to something but it just never finds place in my heart. I’ve tried Haskell for few weeks I’m pretty sure that it’s not my kind of language. Links about my experiences are below. Beside why not giving a chance to Mark Tarver Qi http://www.lambdassociates.org/ ?

(*) http://tourdelisp.blogspot.com/2008/03/lisper-first-look-at-haskell.html
(**) http://tourdelisp.blogspot.com/2008/03/farewell-haskell.html

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